Interview with Naguals Lujan Matus & Richard Osorio

Lujan Matus’ Shamanic Movement Forms

Phe:
The Nagual Lujan Matus teaches a body of shamanic movement series. The energetic configuration of a nagual is such that he or she receives bodies of knowledge as transmissions, from a living lineage of benefactors, in lucid dream awareness, an altered state of consciousness. The relationship between nagual and benefactors is ongoing in such a way that very large transmissions of knowledge and practices can be given, to be imparted during the life of the nagual. Can you describe an experience of receiving these various shamanic movement series?

Lujan:
I have various memories; specifically one where I was standing on the wall of China with the old nagual and another Chinese woman called Mion. I was a child at this stage. Merely standing there accompanied by them was enough to anchor me in a type of knowing that cannot be spoken, yet is absolutely known in terms of its origin.

This type of experience only releases wisdom when confronted by another’s body consciousness. And even then the heartfelt transmission will adapt in correspondence to the person that the knowledge is being delivered to.

In the same way, I have a memory of travelling through vast empty space, surrounded by the old nagual’s energy field. As I witnessed this occurrence I only remember him, in terms of his awareness, as I was in this very unique accompaniment. The vastness that we traversed was beyond my capacity at that stage, yet by virtue of witnessing simultaneously what he witnessed, my capabilities were open to the flood of information that corresponded to this region of eternity.

I have very deep memories of seeing my benefactor perform movements, yet as I saw from my own eyes I witnessed the internal energetic potential as waves of movement within my own body within his, thus I learned. There were many occasions where I was absolutely disembodied and was seemingly carried behind the eyes of the witness. At these points I was nowhere to be found. Nevertheless I was there. I was myself and my benefactor at this point.

As for transmission in terms of the way that I function as a teacher, I can sometimes have a student in front of me and their lack of confidence will stop my body from demonstrating, so I move them to another part of the room so this influence does not affect my ability to teach. Similarly, as it may seem, I am still doing what was done to me, yet this doing relates to everybody that comes into my presence and tells my body who they are and what their potential is, and then my body consciousness responds and then releases accordingly.

So my journey was very thorough with my benefactors. They revealed themselves to me in such a fashion, with so much power, that everybody reveals themselves to me, even if they don’t have power. This is a product of the way that I have been taught.

My eyes have been adjusted, as has my body, to see the unrecognizable, yet in the same breath I cannot recognize the words on a road sign. These are not familiar things as far as I am concerned. What is familiar seems unfamiliar to everybody else. Thus my journey unfolds in accordance with the transmissions of power from my benefactors.

On many occasions when I am teaching, my body will withhold information. On others, it will reveal. This seems very Chinese, I know, but it is not a willful act on my part. It is just the way it is.

And when you get to this stage your body will not act in a way that is unproductive. It will act in accordance to what is presented.

Richard:
As far as I’m concerned the reception of these movements is still ongoing. Not only in terms of movement series I have yet to learn, but also of those that I have learnt already. As I am practicing there is transmission and the actual event of first learning a series like the Dragon’s Tears seems irrelevant in comparison to the absorption and unfolding that occurs each and every time I engage in this practice.

However, learning from Lujan is just as unique as the movements he is teaching. I have been passionate about chinese martial arts and qigong systems since the age of 12, had a number of teachers since, and have seen practitioners of thousands of different systems and yet I have never seen anything that I could compare to the system Lujan is teaching.

Most students who learn the Dragon’s Tears will realize that their energy builds up really fast while they are directly supported by Lujan’s personal power. For me personally, this gave me a reference point for my own personal power that I’m still trying to consolidate years later. In that sense, the Tears only began to emerge as I practiced independently and I still feel like the process of transmission is ongoing. It is the most relevant movement series I have ever learned.

One of the first things a new practitioner will realize is that we need to practice the Tears adaptively, responding to the current electromagnetic energies, their location and their strength. In that sense, the Tears demand that you listen and will your inner seer to awaken. You can not follow your own will blindly by rigidly adhering to a routine of movements. Once the Tears are practiced like a routine, they will have lost their power.

What a wonderful metaphor for our life it is, that in order to claim our personal power we have to sensitively react to our surroundings and follow the way we are meant to walk rather than enforcing our will onto our surroundings and go wherever we want to go. Such are the Tears: they transcend into all layers of our life. The practice will begin in that half an hour or so daily and the principles realized will find their way into every interaction we engage in. It is truly an act of magic.

When I practice the Tears I will naturally drift into a trance and no longer differentiate between my physical body and the surrounding energetic fields. It all becomes one movement, or truly: it always is. It is the closest sensation I’ve had to experience the tranquility of Oneness.

In terms of transmission from the mysterious beings where these movements originate from: I have two memories and I know one of these has yet to unfold. I have no frame of reference for these memories. There neither is a scene in which the memory takes place, nor is there a time I remember in which I experienced these events from which moment on I remember them. They are just there.

One memory is of the old nagual Lujan. I can say almost without a doubt it is the only contact with him I ever had or ever will have. By recalling this memory I tap into such a compacted source of information it is beyond my understanding. My only visual memory is of him standing in darkness. I don’t even have a memory of any facial features. The feeling was such that this is the only time I will see him, because it is all there will be necessary. There were no words spoken and I don’t even have a memory of time passing by in terms of remembering how long I have been with him. All there is, is that one gesture and it is loaded with feeling to such an extent that my breath gets unsteady and my heart beats faster as I recall it, like a lifetime compressed in a split-second. Just remembering this brings so much power to my body, it really is unbelievable. He gave me sense of his personal power and it appears this was all that was necessary for him to do.

The second memory is of Malaiyan. It is indefinitely more deep and intricate in what it contains, but all I recall is that something has happened and I don’t know yet what it is.

Phe:
I feel like inserting a breath here, to pause and let all that depth of information resonate to the depths of being. I have had some of these experiences, of becoming the one who is teaching as I receive the teaching, or as it is being transmitted to another. I have also experienced being another as they receive a teaching pertaining to their circumstances, which do not reflect mine, but leave me with the ability to recognise this situation on another person when I meet them. Can you both write more about practising the Dragon’s Tears or other movement series that seem to assist or activate the process of recovering the information contained in these micro-moments. What is happening when doing the movements that opens the doorways to these transmissions & the ability to recognise energy signatures on others?

Lujan:
This is a very delicate question to answer. To describe the indescribable. One absolutely recognizes a point that is unrecognizable, yet makes itself obvious. The Dragon’s Tears does open individuals to this indescribable aspect thats arrival is heralded in indescribable ways.

Even though a lot has been elucidated by us all in this interview, nothing has really been identified and for those who understand this, they will recognize what cannot be spoken, even though it is impossible to really mention something that must be seen and this simultaneous occurrence usually appears between people when one or the other experiences this viscous substance, as something that is recognized as a momentary holographic intervention that is not visually appparent, yet gives depth to the substance of what needs to be transmitted at that point.

Juan Matus described this as spirit, but this description, even though fortifying and beautiful, is not descriptive enough to give content to the originless impact of that which gives itself substance upon its arrival.

As we progress, these phenomena will make themselves available as has been made available to you Phe and these valuable descriptions move away from their original origin, which is a syntactical maneuver of one who sees giving others a viable option of entering into the shaman’s world, until that description becomes a living experience that will eventually validate itself without a paradigm to support it and this is truly when one begins to walk upon the pathless path.

Richard:
What or how it happens that these doorways of perception open up, I don’t know. I only know that it does happen and I see the connection to the Dragon’s Tears. Practicing the Dragon’s Tears is like drawing a magic into your life that unfolds very impersonally. It is impossible to take possession of the magic in this set of movements and bend it to your will.

The sense of identity truly gets lost in this practice and dissolves into impersonal trance. When you begin to sustain this empty position, empty of identification, the body language of people will reveal their true position. The language of the body is truthful and will always reveal. Often you can observe someone suppressing body language, coaxing the body to be silent to avoid that their true emotional situation is revealed.

I have often witnessed what you call a micro moment that unfolds when an individual in this situation meets a seer. There seems to be an impersonal pressure emanating from a seer that liberates the energy that is blocked physically within this cloaked habit. Like a flash of lighting that, for a second, reveals the inhibited energy within a short mimic or gesture. Like the mere presence of the impersonal in the seers eyes bring completion to the energetic truth of this moment. And really, to understand this language, the language of the body, we do not need a dictionary. It is everyone’s native language and comprehensible for everyone who is confirmed in silence.

Another phenomenon related to this and what I now realize is what you probably actually alluded to in your question, is the completion of energetic truth in terms of being pressured by anothers need and releasing this pressure by acting or speaking this pressure.
The way I see it, being of service essentially means being empty of oneself and being empty of oneself means being full of everything, the impersonal. It is this impersonal quality that truly recognizes you as another I, and by virtue of being liberated from personal attachment, the personal dilemma of people within the field of the seer will find liberation too.

The difficulty here is in the babysteps. As I began to experience these things it was all too easy to lose emptiness to the content that in reality originated from another and confuse it for my own and become lost within a dilemma that wasn’t even mine to begin with. Such are the challenges and such is growth. First you overcome yourself and then you begin to overcome yourself in others. And this really is the essence of the Dragon’s Tears. Impersonal emptiness and silence. To a point so profound that often I’m surprised I’m still here after finishing my practice.

Phe:
Lujan wrote, “Even though a lot has been elucidated by us all in this interview, nothing has really been identified and for those who understand this, they will recognize what cannot be spoken, even though it is impossible to really mention something that must be seen and this simultaneous occurrence usually appears between people when one or the other experiences this viscous substance, as something that is recognized as a momentary holographic intervention that is not visually appparent, yet gives depth to the substance of what needs to be transmitted at that point.”

In relation to this body consciousness you describe, even the process of writing this interview leaves me laughing, with great pauses until what is to be revealed next arises, while I am aware we are all experiencing this challenge to describe what can only be experienced. In terms of developing the potential of awareness in humanity, that has been largely dormant in the aspect of the third eye – heart nexus as it speaks through the body consciousness, we are talking here about physical movement forms that will potentiate this perceptive capacity.

Richard elucidates the practice of fluid response in the moment, “One of the first things a new practitioner will realize is that we need to practice the Tears adaptively, responding to the current electromagnetic energies, their location and their strength. In that sense, the Tears demand that you listen and will your inner seer to awaken. You can not follow your own will blindly by rigidly adhering to a routine of movements. Once the Tears are practiced like a routine, they will have lost their power.”

A really common question for people who are interested in spiritual practices is “how do I differentiate between what my head is saying and what my heart is saying?” I may answer that the body will tell you, we are electromagnetic beings in a plasma universe. All “form” is a communication inherently participating in connectivity. This is bamboozling for many though, as the journey to learn and decrypt the physical language is personal and rarer to find instruction in, than finding a meditation class. Listening to the body consciousness requires a presence frequently unattainable to many due to internal dialogue and beliefs that continuously shunt awareness elsewhere.

You both make so many beautiful and complete descriptions of ‘becoming’ along the pathless path in body consciousness.

Richard: “First you overcome yourself and then you begin to overcome yourself in others.”

Lujan: “This type of experience only releases wisdom when confronted by another’s body consciousness. And even then the heartfelt transmission will adapt in correspondence to the person that the knowledge is being delivered to.”

I had a dream recently, in which an internal dialogue loop was being presented. Someone was presenting an idea, to do with UFO’s and many people were listening, lined up on a kind of conveyor belt. What was being conveyed to us was not true, I could feel that much and it was distracting. The environment was total blackness, like the void. There was no visual information at all. We were told we were being transported to another location, although we actually were transported on a loop which I recognised through sensing the same energy signature on the place we arrived at. What was being “conveyed” to us was someone else’s looping internal dialogue. Suddenly Lujan was there and he asked me, “Do you have a knack for remembering choreography?” I answered “Yes” curious about the connection to this topic with what was being presented in the dream. Lujan continued, “You have the ability to travel through spaces, physical spaces and spaces in consciousness, & know what has been there. You can link to remote spaces connected to those events in the initial space”. I woke up suddenly as I saw myself writing this here as a question about practicing movements that expand consciousness. Lujan do you have any memory of this telepathy? Or can the memory unfold in you now to elaborate?

Lujan:
We are very complex beings. So complex, so extraordinary that it is advantageous for the forces that control our lives to convince us that we are powerless; that we are limited.

We are surrounded by more than what we expect. We are at the moment freeing ourselves from our encasement; collectively and individually. I know for certain, without one shred of doubt that destiny exists in linear timelines that are multi-dimensionally active.

There are those that wish to succeed and there are those who wish us not to succeed. As Henry Ford once said, “whether you believe you can or you believe you can’t, you are right”. This is one of the most difficult social, interdimensional, linearly anchored predicament that humanity faces.

I have memories stored within the holographic matrix of other people’s energy fields. I am privy to this and as I travel my destiny within this lifetime, others are beginning to realize that it is the “out there” that affects the perception within.

Our complexity is as such. Our third eye capacity traverses the destinies of the ones that we are to meet before we even know who they are. This preordained timeline is fractal within its effect. The eyes of the multiverse that we exist within perceive and know the outcome of that which shifts from one point of reference of attention to another, as it seeks its simultaneous immersion and encompassing embrace that is our destiny as a tapestry.

Do I know and remember everything? Where I have been? What I have done interdimensionally?

For sure not. I am the same as everybody. The ever-present moment that continually escapes me is where my personal wisdom arises.

And your realizations, Phe, the wondrous effects of our fractal nature, cannot be rationally comprehended, yet the connection is substantiated through the realization that all hearts have one source.

The trunk of the greatest tree will always recognize a new leaf and will constantly forget those that fall to the ground to be reabsorbed as nutrients for new growth to occur.

And can movement affect consciousness?

Our body assimilates what we are capable of retaining, only if we forget who we are while performing such acts of magic.

Dragon’s Tears with Lujan Matus

Photo courtesy of Ectaticist.

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1 Comment
  1. wow, this is a beautiful discussion, thank you everyone…

    so much fertile compost for the heart-mind

    love

    naomi

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